Women First Responders: Take Care of You While You Take Care of Others

Rich 

This is the resilient first responder, a show for public safety workers in Northern Kentucky and Southwest Ohio, and anyone else that can benefit from the info we share. I'm Rich Palmer, a retired public safety worker and now the community outreach coordinator with Mental Health America of Northern Kentucky and Southwest Ohio. You'll hear me reference our organization from time to time as MHA or even MHANKYSWOH. My guest today is a good friend and former coworker. Jenni Snyder is a captain with the Whitewater Township Fire Department in Hamilton County, Ohio. She is also a career safety educator. She specializes in community risk reduction, youth fire setter intervention, and is known to develop great training programs to address these concerns. Jenni is also certified both as a mental health first aid instructor and in Trauma Responsive Care. As a mother working as a first responder, she can obviously share some of the challenges in her role. Not unlike many of us, Jenni has been through her share of trauma and has lived experiences with mental health challenges. I'm so glad to have Jenni on the show to help tell some of her story. Let's join the conversation. Jenni, thanks for being on the show with me. 

Jenni 

Thanks for having me. 

Rich 

It's always a pleasure to talk and I'm going to start right out of the gate. Tell me about Jenni. What is your role? You're a public safety professional. But how are you doing that these days? 

Jenni 

Well, I am, as you mentioned, a part-time person with Whitewater Township Fire Department. I have been there for over 30 years. I also am a fire and life safety educator with the division of State Fire Marshal's office. But in addition to that, I am also a mental health first aid instructor, which honestly in the big scheme of things, isn't more near and dear to my heart, but has actually become very near and dear to my heart as I progressed through my career. 

Rich 

It's interesting as we move further into our careers that we start to look at the big picture a little bit more. 

Jenni 

Yes, 100%. As I look back on my 30 plus years in the fire service, it's amazing how much what I know now could have made a difference when I was younger. 

Rich 

Yeah, I've said that many times in the world I'm in now that 20 years ago, 30 years ago If I had known some of the things that we would be experiencing not only in our peer group, you know, working side by side with the people that we respond or the people that that work in the offices with us -- If I had known the things. I know now I probably would have had better relationships. But I also would have been able to help people better during calls. 

Jenni 

Absolutely, 100%. I agree with that. 

Rich 

So thinking about that process -- you've worked a long time in the fire service. You’ve met and worked with a lot of people that I'm sure became family to you. How do you see working through the concerns of mental wellness benefiting them or you or both together in the firehouse. Has it made a change? 

Jenni 

I think it has. I think that everybody is more aware of mental health and how we approach that. You know, I think the big slap in the face for many of us – if I can say it that way? -- was the first year that we realized that we had more firefighters dying by suicide than by fires. It's the same or very similar in numbers with police officers and other public servants. And so I think that as we start to really look at that big picture and realizing that the brain is indeed part of our body. It needs health as well as our physical health that we start to really approach the big picture of being healthy all the way around. And working together at that, it's not as blasé to say I need a moment to think about things. Or I'm not OK as it used to be. 

Rich 

Yeah, yeah. We are serving better when we're healthy and being able to step up and say: I need a fix here. I you know I'm going to be a much better responder. I'm going to be a much better servant to the public and to my peers. If I can function at top level. Instead of saying, well, I'm not well, but I don't want anybody to know, so I'm going to continue to not be well. And it's going to get worse. And then I'm going to lose my job anyway, or I'm going to make a mistake that's going to hurt someone. Because I didn't address it. 

Jenni 

Exactly I think about... It happens all the time. You know, somebody experiences a knee injury. And they ignore it for a while. They try to get healthy on their own, but eventually they realize, “I need to go to the doctor. I need more help. This is outside my realm” and they may have to take some time off from work. They may have to do some physical therapy to get it better, so on and so forth. The same thing has to be thought about with our mental health. To ensure that we are as strong as we need to be, we can serve not only the people that call us for assistance, but each other. So we can be that peer service to one another and make sure that we are taking care of each other. We make sure that we are healthy physically so that we can pull somebody out of a fire. We also need to be healthy mentally in order to handle that situation. 

Rich 

Right, right. Well, and I know that you've taken trauma responsive care. And so, you know, through that process, learning really what's really the underlying issues with trauma and how that affects, you know, our entire being. It really is a physiological thing when we've shared trauma or been through a traumatic experience or have had a traumatic environment. ...And show me a first responder that maybe can't tick off all three of those. So we know that seats deep into our limbic system and I know when you went through that training... is there anything there that you've seen benefit your peers or maybe some projects that you're leading that you're seeing a great return on that investment; that impact is showing? 

Jenni 

Right. Yes, absolutely. I have gotten to the point where I share what I've learned from the trauma responsive care side of things, understanding how our brain works and understanding how trauma can change us physically, physiologically, as you mentioned. Pople who experience lots of trauma and have not had the opportunity to deal with that and actually become strengthened by that, actually end up dying younger. So you know, that's a fact. That is something we know. With that knowledge I've been trying to share that with everybody I talked to. I'm probably a little annoying, sometimes. Trying to educate everybody on how we can be more positive, how we can take that trauma that everybody experiences, whether you're a first responder or not. But specifically in our world of first response, how we can take that trauma and actually end up at the end a better person - with that after going through all of those steps. And it's not easy. 

Rich 

It's not easy. As long as it took you to get there, it’s going to be, you know, it's going to be a journey as long or longer to get you where you should be. But you'll come back stronger. 

Jenni 

Absolutely, yes. 

Rich 

More resilient and that's kind of why this show exists in my first episode, talking with Amanda Shaw,, who is our project director for our our Catalyst grant. She said that resilience to her is being able to bounce back but bounce back better. And so, you know, having that resilient factor of knowing, “It's not what's wrong with me. It's what happened to me. Now I can address that and move forward.” So, let's keep that thought in mind as we move forward in our conversation here. But I'd like to know a little bit about why Jenni Snyder decided to become a firefighter. What were some of the things that you saw trying to get that work early in your career? 

Jenni 

Oh, it was difficult early. I honestly became a firefighter because in Hamilton County, where Whitewater is, it was next to impossible to be a paramedic without being a firefighter. You can do private transport, but to actually be on that 911 side of things. So I actually went in to the fire service to be a paramedic. I had always wanted to be a doctor. And but I wanted to be a mom. So Paramedicine seemed like the, you know, the next best thing. So becoming a firefighter was part of the journey. To be honest with you, the first department that I applied for turned me down. They would not hire me because I had -- I was dating at the time one of their members. So they would not hire me as. A result of that, they did not want two people who dated in the same station. They were a volunteer station. But thankfully, the chief of Whitewater Township kind of heard through the grapevine that I was interested. And at the time my parents lived in Whitewater Township. And so, I was a natural, you know, come apply and we'll put you through the agility test. And as long as you pass, we'll get you trained. So, it worked out. But in... I will say in the process of going through that agility test, the guys on the crew who put me through it actually gave me a hose -- or longer, bigger hose, I should say, than what was supposed to be. I was supposed to pull an inch and three-quarter line 100 feet, I believe it was and instead they gave me a 2 1/2. 

Rich 

No kidding. 

Jenni 

And had, yeah, let me pull that. 

Which I was able to do I remember. I still remember 30 years later. Putting it on my shoulder like they told me to do. And trying to take off. And it was a charged line and my little feet... I remember them moving and I wasn't going anywhere. But I finally got the gumption and just pulled and I completed it with a 2 1/2 inch hose instead of an inch and three quarter. 

Rich 

I think I can. I think I can. 

Jenni 

And you know, every time I think about a challenge in my career, I remember my feet moving and moving and moving and digging deep and saying, you know what? I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this. Yeah, I'm gonna do this, and nobody's gonna tell me that I can't. And I think that's why I am where I am today. 

Rich 

That's amazing. So this kind of leads me to to another question and it's not one that I can speak on from experience. I grew up in a family of firefighters, EMS, volunteers, for the most part, but I was a man that wanted to sign up and it was like, you know, we need warm bodies and we need people that can fog mirrors and we need as many people as we can. And of course, we're going to bring you on. But I can't speak from the perspective of the challenges that a woman goes through, not only getting the job, but what about the things that are unique to being on the job, that men don't deal with? 

Jenni 

There are many. In talking about or in speaking to other females throughout my career, a lot of things come up. You know, one of the most prominent that we deal with, usually on a weekly basis in one of the support groups that I I am in -- is when do we take maternity leave, do we have maternity leave? You know, in many departments, there still is not maternity leave for women firefighters. Because it's such a male dominated field still, that it's a matter of even getting the leave and having it approved. And then when? We put ourselves through a grueling, grueling task every day. When do we stop? When do we put the life of our babies over our career? That's something that men don't have to think about. You know, traditionally men are the providers. They go to work and that's it. As a female, we have to look at both sides of that. And that's just a portion of it. I really think overall, my biggest challenge was believing in myself, and believing that I could actually perform a traditional man's job. And I think that every female goes through that at some point in their career. 

Rich 

It lays upon you a stressor that maybe from what I'm hearing, and of course I have no perspective, but being able to, you know, say I am expected to be this, but they don't perhaps know that I can live up to that. It's a stressor that lays there. It doesn't necessarily come forward, but it's got to be present. 

Jenni 

Yes, absolutely. It's always present, even the guys who have always supported me -- and you know I will say Chief Bill Darby, number one, first and foremost -- he has passed now -- but he laid the foundation for me in the fire service. And he was always very supportive. And he would not put up with anybody who was not. But even with that kind of support system you always feel like you are proving yourself over and over and over again. Because it is the silent thing that sits there. People may not say something to you, but you see the looks and you know the glances. The fact that you're not invited out with the crew after work. Oftentimes those things that affect you socially and emotionally and kind of plant that seed in your mind. Maybe I'm not supposed to be here. It's a lot to get over. And to get through. 

Rich 

In so many careers we hear the term impostor syndrome, and we deal with that on a very emotional level. You know that really gets into our psyche, gets into our id, our ego, you know, can I do this? Am I doing? How am I doing this? How did I get here? Right. Is that something that you're dealing with in that process? 

Jenni 

Absolutely, yes. Yeah, I think that I know myself -- I can't tell you the number of times I literally came home and cried because I didn't feel like I could do things. Even though for the most part I could do the physical side of things. I was out there doing the same job as every other person on the fire department. I still did not feel like I fit in. I still did not feel like I was one of the crew at the time. And again, I will say I was on a very supportive department. I was not the first female on my department. I wasn't even the first officer on my department. It's, you know, not that side of things. Sometimes it's just that peer interaction and those, you know, those peers looking at you and thinking, “Do you fit in? Can I trust you?” And that's so much of what is important in the first responder world -- is that trust. 

Rich 

Trust. There it is, trust. And not necessarily being able to earn it, but being able to demonstrate that you're worthy of it. So as you're working through the process of becoming accepted or even feeling like you're accepted. And you want to move forward in your career – obviously, promotions are on your mind. You want to do everything you can do to be the best you can be. Are there unique challenges that that women go through in that process that perhaps we don't see in other occupations? 

Jenni 

Well, I think the bottom line is, we have to be at the top of our game at every turn. We have to know more. We have to be more self-confident. We have to project that self-confidence. On the other hand, we also have to figure out how to be accepted, how to be accepted by the peers, because nobody wants a leader that they don't trust. So as a female, I always made sure that I was the most educated one in the group, no matter what. That's one thing that I felt I could ensure that I had. I had that education behind me which gave me some additional confidence as I went through the promotion process. It's just one of those things that I think you dig in and figure out where you can be successful. And even though in some aspects I wasn't as strong as the guys, I may not have had the mechanical knowledge that some had. I mean I can't fix anything. There are guys on fire departments that man just put something in front of them and they're going to fix it, you know? 

Rich 

Ohh yeah, yeah yeah, that's how now some departments keep the rig on the road, right? 

Jenni 

Absolutely! That was not me. I could hand them any tool and I was always ready to assist. But when it came to the other side of things, kind of the command side and the paramedicine side, I always always went above and beyond to educate myself more. So, I think that every female, as they try to progress has to find their comfort zone and accentuate that. And make sure that they are part of the team. Make sure they are a peer and you know, be confident in that side of things. 

Rich 

Obviously there were rough times. Obviously there were times where you had the doubts and the stresses of trying to prove the ability to do the job. How did you get to where you are now? I mean, how did you get through those tough times? 

Jenni 

My peers, other female peers who I was able to speak with. My family, obviously. Being a mom and a single mom who worked 24 hour shifts, was never easy, but we managed to get through that. And spiritually. Allowing myself to not be in control sometimes. Sometimes you gotta do that and you gotta think you know what? It just wasn't meant to be at the time. kind of bounce back and redirect. I mean, that's absolutely what got me through. Those three things, family, friends, and my spirituality. 

Rich 

So you're touching on points of helping us build resilience. You're touching upon those dimensions of wellness that we learn about -- and we'll talk about that again in just a little while. But you know having that social interaction, that spiritual interaction, you were able to work from an emotional level with family and bonds and your intellectual level by improving your prowess, your knowledge, your ability. So you've really reached on a lot of those things that can help any first responder, police, fire, EMS communications -- any of them -- be more resilient. And deal with some of those stressors that we see on a daily basis. It's finding out where is the balance, what do I need to have more of? Would you agree to that? 

Jenni 

I 100% agree. 

Rich 

What is your perspective on resilience? What's that mean to you? 

Jenni 

I think resilience is being able to go through something... and make it through. You know, I don't always know that I always came out on the other side of a trauma or a stressful situation better. But I made it through and there's always that light. There's something on that other side that I could look at and say, "OK, I have this that is better for me.” For instance and I'm I'm going to talk a little bit about this in my talk, but I was looked over for a fire chiefs position that I thought for sure I had. I had been groomed for the position. I did not get it. I was crushed. And as I started thinking about things, even though I was down, I was probably at one of the lowest I've ever been when I did not get that -- I went through so many different emotions, anger and just sadness and mourning over that position -- at the end of the day I had a 5 year old and a 10 year old at home who really needed me to be there for them more than I needed to be there as a chief for a fire department. And so being able to lean on that side of things and understand that I'm more than a first responder. I'm a mom and I'm a good person in society. That, to me is resilience -- is being able to look at the facets, all aspects of your life --and bounce back. And as a result, ultimately, I became a better first responder as well. 

Rich 

As we record this while we're having this conversation, you're prepping for a presentation that Mental Health America is having on March 7th, and it's been titled "Female First Responders: Taking Care of Yourself While Taking Care of Others.” So you just alluded somewhat to that process. Can you share a little bit of a peek at what you're going to focus on during your presentation? 

Jenni 

Most of what I'm going to focus on is indeed what we females -- or what I should say, not necessarily everybody, because everybody has their own journey -- but what I have experienced as a 30-year first responder and how I was able to get through those things. I think it's important as I have spoken to female first responders throughout the United States and actually, some throughout the world, I hear similar things being thrown out there, “how did you get through not getting that promotion? How do you function as a single mom in a job where you work 24-hour shifts? How do you get past that possible harassment side of things that many first responders go through?” So those are kind of the topics and then maybe one more, which is the death of a peer and and how we can bounce back from that. I'm still kind of completing what I'm going to talk about. And I don't want to overwhelm anybody so. 

Rich 

Well, we don't wanna give it all up right now on this show, because we want people to come and see what you have to say. You know, this is very important. Kelsey Shackelford is on our team and she approached me and said, “I want to do something for International Women's Day which is falling on March 8th. Who do you know that could share their story? Who do you know that could tell us a little bit more about how women work in a first responder role?” I immediately said, well, you need to talk to Jenni. Because I have heard some of your life experience and some of the trauma that I know you've experienced. And it just to me, feels like when we really help ourselves through a moment, it's because we've learned other people have been through that moment. And we're not alone. We don't have to go alone and how better to do that than to have someone who can talk to us as a peer and support us through that process with that kind of a story. 

Jenni 

Right. Yeah, I'm thrilled to share my story. I hope that maybe I can share some levity and some assistance and maybe even a few laughs in the process. 

Rich 

Humor is part of it. I mean we all feel better with humor, right? 

Jenni 

And we have to, we have to laugh at ourselves and you know. 

Rich 

It's not always appropriate humor. 

Jenni 

Not in the fire service. 

Rich 

No, as we all know. I mean, firehouse humor certainly has its calluses. 

Jenni 

Yes it does. 

Rich 

So, we have heard so much about self-care. I mean the COVID experience brought it all to light. We've been talking about it but, it really just kind of brought it forward. “By gosh, make sure you're taking care of yourself.” And we've all kind of had a perspective of what that means. What is self-care and you know the cliche of, you know, do something for yourself today, right? But it's more than just saying, oh, I should exercise more or I should eat better or I should go for a walk or take a bubble bath, right? SAMHSA, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, has their eight dimensions of wellness. And for those of you listening to this particular show, I will have a PDF download that you can get off of the FirstResponderPodcast.net site. You'll find the links to that there. These dimensions of wellness take into account not only our physical health, but the things that really contribute to our overall wellness. Physiological, emotional, social, spiritual, which you alluded to, intellectual, occupational -- of all things -- financial, which we often dismiss as a point of self-care. Obviously, we talk about exercise. And environmental. You touched on a few of those. Jenni, anything else in there that you've really kind of looked at and said, you know this is important to me, it's important to my family. It's important to our well-being. Where have you reached out in the dimensions of wellness? 

Jenni 

I think I honestly have at different times in my life looked at every one of those. There have been times that you know you mentioned -- the occupational -- being happy outside the home, having a job that you love, which I have multiple jobs. I never feel like I'm working. I absolutely love that it's very self-fulfilling because I'm also helping other people. It's nice because that gets me away from the family. I really think that as a whole you really have to look at every aspect. You know, when I feel like I'm overwhelmed financially, which I think we all go through some of those times. You know, “I have a bill that's coming up and oh, my goodness, am I going to be able to squeeze it in?” And that sort of thing, that's a great time to look at, you know, maybe my social side -- to actually talk to my peers, maybe call one of my sisters and say, hey, you know, this is really heavy on my mind. It kind of takes the load off the financial side, which has me overwhelmed on that corner -- and kind of even it out on the other side with that social aspect. But I think you really have to pay attention to all different aspects all the time in order to really be fulfilled and really to live your best life and understand that, wow, when one side is really heavy, I need to show myself some grace and look to the other side. 

Rich 

That's beautiful, right? That right there. That's beautiful. Being able to forgive your weight of emotion sometimes is valuable and saying, you know, I don't have to have everything on the level comparatively across the board all the time. You show somebody that can do that and I'll show you a robot. But, because we are human and we do have a, you know, a lack of balance from day-to-day. So what you said is so valuable because it's OK... this one, it's going to need a little focus, but before I can focus on it I might need to really address some other things to help me build that resilience. If I'm working in a first responder role -- and I'm going to kind of talk about a little bit what we've seen with our newer first responders -- they're coming into the role in an entirely different generation than I came from. And they have different expectations of what work is, or they have different expectations of what a relationship means. One of the things we're hearing is, "When should I focus on retirement concerns or when should I talk about putting money away? And we're starting to try to address that from the wellness side of things to be able to give them tools and resources very early in their career where, yes, maybe it's kind of cool to go buy that brand new Dodge Ram pickup. But, if you get yourself into a practice of putting some money aside -- put it into a fund -- you're not going to miss it. You're not going to see it's there, but it's going to accrue over time. If you get into that practice early you will find the benefit later in life, which helps build -- as you move toward retirement - some peace of mind. And one of the challenges we see in retirement is, “Who am I? Where do I belong right now?” And, "Oh my God, do I have the money to make it through?” So all of these things balance. So I appreciate your focus on saying, you know, let's look here when this is tough. 

Jenni 

And you know, I'm not far from that. That is completely true in my life right now as well. As far as looking toward retirement. Maybe you are financially stable enough that you can go out and get that Dodge Ram. Even you know, maybe you did your saving earlier or whatever it may be. 

Rich 

Right. 

Jenni 

It depends on where you are in your life. And I think it's important that we all understand that. People are at different aspects of their lives in different areas and all we can do is support them, as you mentioned. And give them some tools, right? To help out. 

Rich 

Being able to share some of that, that benefit of knowledge and experience, because many times it it comes to the you know it comes to the wisdom of having been there. So, we've talked about that self-care building our own, you know resilience. But sometimes we can't go it alone and you know that's OK, too. So how does Jenni know when it's time to reach out for help? Is there anything you can share as advice to others? 

Jenni 

I think I find myself -- I am usually very extroverted, very outgoing person. And when I find myself starting to stay home more often. Not reaching out to my friends or even getting on Facebook or, you know, whatever social media. When I find myself hiding a little more, that's when I know, “Hey, something's up.” And sometimes I don't even know what it is sometimes. I feel a little more closed off, but I'm not exactly sure why I'm closed off or what's going on emotionally because I haven't given myself the time to sit down and say, "Hey, Jenni, what's going on?” When I see that happening, that's exactly what I do. I will sit down and just think to myself, “what is bothering me. Where are things lacking right now in my life? What do I need? Do I need more time with my kids? Is there something weighing heavy on my mind?” I always mentioned to my kids when they say, “you know, I'm just not feeling good, Mom, I don't know what it is.” I always ask them, "What are you worried about?” And so I make myself sit down and think, "What am I worried about?” Sometimes I write it out. And sometimes it's multiple things. You know, they go on the list of things that Jenni is worried about and then I have to actually weed out all of the weeds to figure out what is actually on my mind. And, who do I need to turn to to get help. Is it a matter of speaking to my peer? I have a person who is a friend of mine but is also part of the peer support team here in Hamilton County. And is it a matter of I need to give him a call? Is it a matter of actually talking to my therapist? It's time to, you know, pick up the phone and get back in there and talk to them. Or do I just need some time with my sisters out enjoying ourselves? That's what I noticed with me, and those are some of the tools I use to try to figure out what's going on. My mom always told me when I was younger, if I don't take care of myself, there's not gonna be anybody there else to take care of my kids or my animals or whatever it may be. 

That always struck me as something to actually live with and I always have. And that's, you know, one of the reasons I do think that resilience is in there because I was taught it young. 

Rich 

Boy, it's nice to have that voice of reason in your life. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it also, it appears to me you're saying in some words, as I paraphrase this very, very boldly, don't ignore yourself. I feel like very often in our careers we get caught up in pushing ourselves aside and damaging ourselves at the sake of benefiting others. Don't ignore yourself when your voice is telling you somewhere, something's not right, listen. Find that balance with whatever resource that is appropriate to you, and that may be external resources that may be family. It may be something in the balances of wellness. But using negative coping strategies to bury that voice, to hide that voice, or to just dismiss it so you don't have to deal with it. Is going to be damaging in the long run, so reach out for help when and how you can. 

Jenni 

Right, absolutely. And I fully believe in that. You know, as first responders, we are there for everybody else when they need help. You know you call 911, we come right. It doesn't matter if you stubbed a toe or there's a cat in a tree or, you know, maybe somebody's not breathing. Whatever it. Is we are coming to help. It's time that we call 911 on ourselves sometimes, and we show up for ourselves. 

Rich 

Right. Show up for yourself. That's great. Any resources you'd like to share that you know, for others on the job and maybe they don't know where to turn? 

Jenni 

I think finding a local peer support group. And most around have them, if not locally, you can always look to the state level. Finding a peer support group is a great step. In addition to that an EAP. An EAP will give you some resources. I can't stress enough that it's okay. It's okay to call and get some help. However, it may be. You would never ignore chest pain. We can't ignore the emotional pain that sometimes comes up. So you know, and then always, I mean 988. 

Rich 

Right. 

Jenni 

We express it as a suicide hotline, but I think it's important to understand, also, you can call 988. Even if you are not contemplating dying by suicide. You can call for help. Just to speak to somebody or text. 

Rich

Absolutely. Yeah. That's the other thing. You can call, you can text. They even have an online web-based chat and it's comfortable, it's confidential. And even if you want to reach out to help somebody else, you can use that tool and they will help you connect that person to the resources. 

Jenni 

Right, yes. 

Rich 

Jenni, I so appreciate talking with you today and sharing some of that. I know you and I have confided in each other off and on through the years and it's just a joy for me to be able to help tell this story with you. I encourage everyone to sign up for this session. You can attend in person at our Blue Ash office, you can also attend via zoom if that's comfortable for you. I myself am a bit zoom fatigued, but you know we do have a couple of options for you and it's just one of the many workshops, sessions, exploratory opportunities that you can take to learn a bit more about how to take care of yourself. Any last words, Jenni? 

Jenni 

The only last thing I wanted to mention is I know it says female first responders and of course I'm speaking from the female side, but if anybody would like to attend. As even a male, we're all a team here. And so,I don't want anybody to feel like, “Oh I can't go because this is for females. The more we know about each other and what people are going through, the better we will be together. 

Rich 

There it is. Let's support; advocate for each other. Let's be allies 

Jenni 

Yes.  

Rich 

That's beautiful. I absolutely appreciate the time Jenni spent talking with me.  

As mentioned a few moments ago, if you or anyone in your life is experiencing a mental health crisis or considering suicide, immediately call 988. 988 offers 24/7 call, text, and chat access to trained crisis counselors who can help you if you're experiencing suicidal, substance use, or mental health crisis, or any other kind of emotional distress. People can also call 988 if they're worried about a loved one who may need crisis support.  

For the classes and services provided by MHA in Northern Kentucky and Southwest Ohio, visit MHANKYSWOH.org. I will have links to this in the show notes. I encourage first responders to choose the services menu and choose wellness events to find a number of offerings. There were also a great number of specialized classes at mhankyswoh.org/cit. Of course, I'll have links to these in the show notes for this show at firstresponderpodcast.net.  

Subscribe to the Resilient First Responder for free on your favorite podcast app. You'll find us in most directories Apple, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, and many others. For MHA, I'm Rich Palmer. If you have questions or would like to reach out to me about our services find my contact info on the show site: firstresponderpodcast.net.